Episode 11: Culture, Choreography to Breaking the Mold

Join Talin in the studio with a sit down interview with multi talented choreographer and entrepreneur Joya Kazi. From bringing South asian dance style into Hollywood to working on major projects that are hitting representation in real time. Joya talks the career she has built starting at a young age and about taking risks.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

What's up everybody? Welcome back to Said What I Said with Selene. My guest today is someone who just isn't a choreographer. She's someone who's been redefining what dance looks like in the mainstream entertainment from bringing South Asian dance styles into Hollywood to working on major projects that are shifting representation in real time. She's built a career that blends culture, artistry, and business in a way that is honestly so rare. But beyond all that, she's someone who's built her own lane, starting young, taking risks, and creating opportunities instead of waiting on them. Everyone, please welcome Joya Kazi.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

You're such a sweet welcome and introduction, such kind words. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to see you doing your thing and to be here with everyone supporting you and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to have you because Joya and I actually go way back, you guys. I am gonna give you guys a little bit of a backstory of how we met. So this was back in 2019. We were just talking about this. So she had actually reached out to me on Instagram in regards to a Netflix like project that she was working on, and they were looking for South Asian dancers. And at the time my dance, I think I was like 17.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

I was like, you and maybe yeah, like 100% a minor needed to make sure we had that Coogan account.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Oh my god, I was like literally reading the going back. I was like, wow, what a time! Like, you know. So she had reached out and I like sent in an audition, and like everything was happening very quick, like at that time. Very tight turned. And I was like, holy crap, I was like, this is like a cool opportunity, like, let's do it. I get an email, I think a few weeks later, like, you booked the job, and I was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea what it was for.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

I mean, none of us really knew what it was actually going to be. I mean, the the most that I knew was that Mindy Kaling was attached to the project, yeah. And so at that time we had all heard whispers about these um large open castings, and so we had an inkling of what this project could be. Yeah, um, but that was about it. And uh I was, you know, I'd been brought into choreograph for season one, and I really wanted to do right by the culture and make sure we had as many South Asian faces and um also supporting the next generation of talent and finding young kids out there. So yeah, I was really excited and so happy that we got to find you, and it ended up being season one of Never Have I Ever.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Never Have I Ever. You guys have probably all seen this show, it's a phenomenon. It did absolutely amazing. I think they got three seasons, right? Four. Oh, four. Four seasons, yeah. So insane, but it was a really good show. So check it out, you'll see us in it actually. Join us in it too.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Yeah, yeah. Funny enough, at the very end they pulled me in to also be on camera. And at the time I was telling you that I actually didn't want to take on that extra uh role because at that time I was doing casting, I was doing choreography, uh, doing wardrobe, and then it's so important to be behind the monitors, checking the space, making sure all my dancers are feeling good, understanding what the you know changes are, getting your inners tested. There's so much that's going on at the same time, and it's really important for me to kind of be that anchor for everyone, be behind the monitors, checking on all of that. But then, you know, um before I actually said no to the offer, I said, you know, the universe has asked you to do this, and who are you to say no? Yeah, and uh I just forced myself to step it up, and I was also on camera, so I was wiping my sweat and trying to get my touch-ups in between, you know, running from the monitors back onto our spots. But yeah, I ended up also coming back for season four to Corey Ghosh as well. That's so awesome. The finale dance, which was really wonderful, and I think um from season one to season four, that uh transition that you see of Davy from going from being like, Oh my god, this is so embarrassing, I would never want to be caught dead doing this anywhere else, to actually wanting to do a dance that's so special for her body, for her grandma, yeah, um, and it's coming from a place of love and care. And it wasn't about both season one and season four weren't about the spectacle of Bollywood dance. I feel like a lot of times when we see South Asian dances in uh Hollywood, it's really a spectacle, it's very glitzy, and it's like all about this larger-than-life feel, but also this dance is so much a part of our daily life culturally, that sometimes it doesn't have to be over the top to also translate to Western audiences. So both with season one and season four, I really wanted people to find the love in it, just like the organic movement of it. Um, and with season four, that finale dance at the wedding, it's you feel that joy and that excitement of Kumla and they be coming together and doing something so special. Yeah, and you know, I uh that choreography was actually up for a consideration for an Emmy. That's insane to even be, you know, in the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Yeah, that's amazing. You did such a phenomenal job with all of that, like you handled everything with like just such poise and grace, and you just put your 110% into it, and I think the audience members can definitely see that like resonate through the screen. So, congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Thank you, and you were part of it, you know. I know, so like none of this none of this work could exist without the bodies, and I always say, Thank you, you know, um, as as hard as it as I work, my my work cannot exist without the students that I teach or the dancers that I get to work with, yeah, you know, and so at the end of the day, you guys are the ones that are taking choreography and making it a dance and making it a pop culture moment.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you, thank you. And we gotta get started at the very beginning because your relationship with Dan started really early. So, what kind of first pulled you into it?

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Oh my goodness. So it's really interesting that I wasn't exposed to Indian classical dance from my community. I was first exposed by Michael Jackson. Oh and so I watched his black or white music video where you he dances with um dancers from so many different cultures. Yeah, and that was the very first time I was probably, you know, barely four years old. And it was way past my bedtime, but my mom would still wake me up, even if it was like, you know, I was already in bed. She's like, if Michael Jackson comes on, you get to watch. Because to her, it was like she's being exposed to like art and entertainment, like it's it's somehow feeding something in her, you know? And so she woke me up, it pulled me out of bed. Uh, Michael Jackson's black or white is playing on MTV, and then I see this beautiful Odyssey dancer, which is uh an Indian classical dance from Orissa. And I immediately told my mom that I wanted to dance like her because, as many of you may have already heard the story, that if I could dance like her, I could then marry Michael Jackson, I could be Joya Jackson and travel the world with him, and then my life is set, right? So that's actually why I started dancing was to marry Michael Jackson, and somehow the trajectory completely changed. But yeah, just a couple months after that, once I uh turned four, I was able to join my very first dance class, and my mom drove out two hours one way for me to start learning Odyssey, and um that was kind of the start of it, and I was very lucky because my my guru Jyoti Rao she gave me many opportunities at a very young age, and so I was doing um adult intensives um where I was the only five, six, or seven-year-old and everyone else were adults, but she saw something in me and um saw that like passion and will to learn and yeah, definitely the potential because at that time it's more of like this is just something that um I probably felt like a gravitational pull towards, but I didn't know where that could ever take me. I d I certainly wasn't thinking that that was a career at that time, yeah. Um, but I think through her um through her love and her teaching and guidance, um I, you know, I stayed within the art, I stayed studying, and then I then moved on to also studying Ghathak, which is a North Indian style of classical dance, Partnakyam, which is from South India, and those were primarily my three um focuses. But I also studied five other Indian classical dances um just for about five years, I would say, to really uh hone my skills as far as a choreographer. Absolutely. Um just knowing the various vocabulary and so that when I can create, I have so many pots to pull from.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

And yeah, that was kind of like throughout my childhood just dancing, and then around when I was 12, I started asking my gurus if I can, you know, shadow them, teach, um assist in any way. And so I started my first teaching jobs at 12.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Um, started my company at 16, and then I was a theater and dance major in school, did an emphasis in choreography and production management. I also doubled with poly sci, but like that was more of just because it was interesting to me and really fun, and that was my easy A. Yeah. You know? Um, and I I'm always up for like a nice little debate and yeah, being a little more worldly and absolutely and then I minored in managerial economics, which was like finance, you know, so good enough for business. And yes, I understood very young uh that being an artist is not enough, and that you also have to be a business uh person and you have to have a certain sense of business acumen to be successful as an artist. And I, you know, I give thanks to my parents because they're both entrepreneurs in um their own fields, but yeah, then I, you know, once I got into uh dance in college, I think that's where things really started shifting in terms of why I was even dancing.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah, I love that it's such a beautiful story of how you found your love for dance and like through so many other people that you met in your life too that helped have like a positive impact. Like it's just so beautiful. I think about that all the time, like me growing up as a dancer as well. Like, it was just so many mentors around that really kind of just like help shape you into that person and give you that extra push to like go for it, you know. Like you're destined to do this.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, and it's you know, when when you get that type of belief from um mentors around you, it's it's a really beautiful and um I would like a very spiritual place to be in. Um, you know, it's it doesn't come often and it doesn't stay long, you know. So I feel very blessed and privileged to have been able to have even experienced that as a child.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah, absolutely. Growing up in the US while being rooted in South Asian culture, did you ever feel like you were navigating two identities at once?

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah, absolutely. I feel uh I feel like a lot of people that grew up um back in my day, um you know, at the time where you're still struggling with um your home life and your public life and who you are at school. Um and at that time it really was about assimilation and uh you know uh being as American as possible. I hope that what I'm seeing today, where it feels like kids can very openly be who they are 100%, and there's so much pride in culture and a lot more acceptance. Um I definitely feel like that that has shifted, which makes me so happy and excited. But yeah, definitely I felt like you know, I would go to baseball games and like pool parties with my friends, but up until probably around high school, most of my friends didn't know that I was like studying Indian dance for like 20-30 hours a week.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Wow at all.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

I just it was not a thing that I ever shared at school.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Um and you know, uh I I feel like in the beginning I had a lot of pride and it very quickly got um like tarnished at school. So I remember I had Mahendi or henna coming from um the weekend and we had gone to a wedding, you know, and I had henna designs on my hand, and when I got to school, one of my friends this is this is the first grade, one of my friends yelled out to the entire class, ew, Joya has poop on her hands. Oh my gosh. And I was um maybe six years old. Yeah, and after that, I never got henna on my hands ever again until I was about 24 or 25 at my friend's wedding.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

And that's how much it it um you know uh pulled me away from wanting to show anyone. And it's not that I was embarrassed, I won't say that I was embarrassed, it was that I wanted to protect what felt so beautiful to me. Absolutely, you know, and I remember I I uh had my neighbors when they would come over, we'd go to each other's houses, and then one day she said, Oh, but your house smells all the time. And I was like, Oh, what do you mean? Like, oh, it just smells like like Indian food. Right. And I when I went to go tell my mom, like I felt so much um, I was very embarrassed by that. And when my mom when I told my mom, she was like, Okay, so it smells like spices, and their house smells like pasta and pizza. Like, what's the difference? What's the difference? Exactly. And I think that kind of confidence for an immigrant to have to just kind of brush it off your shoulder also really shaped how um I moved forward. Yeah, and I didn't try so much to to prove to people that um I'm American or that I'm Indian because the other thing that a lot of people deal with is that you end up being too American for the Indians and then too Indian for the Americans. Oh yes, I get those comments all the time, you know, and I never fit in any bubble um in terms of like cultural identity. Also, my mom is uh Hindu and my dad's Muslim, so that's like a whole nother thing where like you know, people are always trying to put you in a box. Are you Hindu? Are you Muslim? You know, okay, but like do you follow your Bengali side or are you more Kashmiri? How American are you, how like what Indian classical dances are? If you're Muslim, you can't study dance. Like, there's so many things that people will throw at you. And I just got to a point where I realized that I am a culmination of all these cultures, and I just take the beauty from the religions, the the cultures, what have you. And really, dance is my religion. It's the thing that has really shaped me, the teachings, the discipline, the dedication, the um the challenges, the the push to um accomplish and to dive deeper in your art. Those are all skills that really um shape you spiritually, you know. So at the end of the day, you're I I was no longer trying to have different identities. I was like, this is all me, and this is Joya, and what you see is what you get.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Exactly. We're proud representations of our family, our parents, like where they come from, like representing out here in America, and like it's okay to mix a little bit of everything and still be true to ourselves and never change for anyone just because of outside noise or what it is, right? You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Because I feel like it there will always be a comment, and even if you adjust in any way, there will still be a comment. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

We're gonna take a short break, but stay tuned with us to continue the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Said what I said with Alan.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Is said what I said with Celine. We're gonna continue our conversation today with Joya. So I wanna go on. You didn't just follow a path, you created one. You started building your own opportunities really young, which most people don't have the confidence to do. So, what made you decide I'm not waiting, I'm building something myself.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

I think it it wasn't that I felt like I need to build this thing right now at 16. It was more of like it was just something that came from inside where I was like, this is what I want to do, and um uh I think it's just like the spirit of who Joya is, who she was as a kid. It was very much like I'm gonna do what I want. Yeah, and um my mom also raised my you know my sister and myself to be very independent, and so it was like you know, at 16 it was like go go get a job and pay your bills, pay for your gas, do all that kind of stuff, never depend on a man, you know. And um, I remember I had gone out, I got my first job um at Abercrombie, and I was there for a couple months, maybe. Um, and it just felt like I was wasting my life there. I mean, as fun as it was, you know, getting to meet people, doing that thing. Um, I just felt like I could be doing something that meant a lot more to me. And I think just like all of my training, especially between the ages of 12 to 16, I was just really focused on honing my skills as a dancer, as a choreographer. Um, I just felt this thing that like, oh, um, I have a a skill set and uh I'd much rather make money doing this than you know doing a cashier job.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

And so I think it was just more of that, that like this is where I feel happy spending my time. And you know, on the weekends when my friends would go to the mall, I would be driving around putting up flyers for my classes and teaching and doing whatever I can to um get the word out. But it just it just felt like this is my path. And um, around 12 years old was when I was exposed to the concept of being a choreographer as a career, yeah. And so I had gone to one of these really big Bollywood uh star shows where they have all the A-list actors come out and they perform um all their greatest hits, and the choreographer was Sean McGover, and um my mom, you know, pointed him out and basically explained to me that like this is the man that you that created all these costumes and these visuals and the dancing, and that this is his job. And so, in that moment, for the first time, I stopped looking at the Bollywood stars, and I was looking at all the dancers and just thinking about wow, they travel the world and they're dancing, like the stars are kind of marking, and the dancers are full out, and the sweat is flying, and this is a whole life, and I just started thinking, oh, but they must travel, maybe they don't see their families as much, but they get to do like TV shows and music videos and commercials and all of those cool opportunities, yeah. And it's you know, it's not something that you're typically exposed to in Silicon Valley, that's where I grew up in the Bay Area, right? So it's not very entertainment or arts based in that way for careers and uh looking at it in a professional lens, but that really stuck with me, and so at 16 I just felt like this is the time to do it, and I'd much rather um kind of get myself going down this path, and yeah, one day I want to be a choreographer and head to Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, that's so amazing. I mean, with all of that, did you ever have like a moment or like a realization like, oh, this is so much? Like, do I like quit, give up, or like do I keep going? Um, do you do you want the truth or do you want me to be positive? I want the truth. We're gonna say what we say on here, you know?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Oh my goodness. I mean, I think um when you start out and you're young, everyone is very supportive and really excited for you. But then once you start standing out and people can see your potential and what you can do, that's when um things get really rough. And I fell victim to a lot of awful bullying to the point where you know I was even physically bullied by other dancers, um, you know, and just like this there there was so much uh heat around, oh, she thinks she can make it, she can be a choreographer, and what is she gonna do? Like, who's gonna take this little brown girl kind of vibe? And that's coming from within my own community, you know, and so there were many times that uh I I felt like I might be the person that's a little delusional. Like, do I am I really good enough to do this if every single person around me is telling me that I'm not?

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Um, and there there was definitely a time in college where I even filled out the paperwork to change my major from theater and dance, and I was just going to do poli sci, and I had basically decided like if this many people are telling me that I'm like that I suck, then maybe I should just be a lawyer and it's not for me. And I had that paperwork and I had and I was ready to go turn it in. And at that time, you know, my my car had been uh like my tires were slashed, my side view mirrors were like broken off by other people. My apartment had been egged, and this is like all from like the competition scene, you know. Um, it was a lot, and I was almost ostracized because people just I don't I don't know. It was that I was so focused on wanting to to be a dancer and very focused on my career. I worked three jobs through school. I was saving up my money flying from UC Davis to um LA every month just to like take class, trying to network, and this is like as a freshman, junior, you know, throughout all those years. Um, but yeah, I I really thought I was about to change my major, and then I had, you know, uh maybe one or two very close friends that were like, you can't you can't do this. Like you have something in you and you shouldn't let these people, you know, sway you. But then at the same time, you know, you have these like American Idol um auditions where like the person gets up there and is like, everyone told me I was amazing, and so here I am, and they're not. I thought this was like completely like vice versa. Like, I'm the one telling myself that I think I'm so great, but everyone is saying that I'm not. So I was like, I don't I don't want to make a fool of myself. But I think um, you know, somehow in like the the smallest amount of faith, I I don't even know how I still moved, like took that next step forward to be like, okay, I'm gonna stay in it. Yeah, but I did, and I'm really glad I did, you know. And I've learned from all of that to this day that um you just can't hear the booze because the boos are always very, very, very public. Um and the cheers are always private. But at the same time, I don't listen to the applause either. Yeah, you know, and you just have to my mom always said you have to kick out your own red carpet because no one else will. Yeah. And um you walk down and with your head held high and you do what you need to do for yourself, not for anyone else.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

And so, yeah, I mean, I but I think that's part of the that struggle is part of every artist's journey in terms of finding out why are they really doing it.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Exactly. We have to kind of go through that in order for us to come to that realization and get that confidence and realize like we are meant to do this. Like, yes, there's gonna be so much outside noise and opinions, and us too, like being first generation, second generation over here in America trying to do like what we're trying to do, it's 10 times harder for us. We're put up with so many obstacles and things that and also just doubts of people. They're like, Oh, they can't do this, and it it's hard, it sucks. Like, I can't say that enough. Like, through like the dance industry and every industry I've been a part of, it sucks, but it's like we have to remind ourselves like everything we do, we are doing it for a love and a passion. Yeah, and if that is what makes us happy at the end of the day, we have to keep pushing and persevering and thriving through it all. And that kind of brings me to like my next question of like, how much of your success do you think came from talent, like versus resil uh resilience?

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Oh my goodness, you know, talent definitely has to be there, and I I feel like I'm very lucky. I think that the talent comes from somewhere else, um, and the shaping of the teachings you know that I've had as a child definitely helped, but talent is not enough to get you anywhere. Um, it does require a great amount of sacrifice and dedication, determination, and drive. Um, and for anyone that wants to be an artist, um, I feel like a lot of times people see the glitz and glamour, and you know, how like on socials you can blow up overnight from six seconds. And there's just like it almost seems like there's a bit of an ease and an excitement and great glory at the end very quickly. But being an artist is not for those who are at all weak in their heart. You have to have such a strong heart and faith and understanding of who you are as an artist and also acceptance that you will continue to evolve. So talent is obviously important, but um it's not enough.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, absolutely. We're gonna take a quick break, but stay tuned while we continue the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Said what I said with Alan.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Said What I Said with Celine. We're gonna continue our conversation today with Joya. So you've been a huge part of bringing South Asian dance into mainstream entertainment, and I think people underestimate how difficult that actually is. So, um, did you ever feel like your culture was misunderstood or simplified for mainstream audiences?

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Of course, that's the main reason why I uh found my purpose in uh my passion. Because when I was uh specifically in school, I realized that any dance style beyond ballet uh just really didn't have any sense of notoriety and really wasn't um you know accepted as a a proper form of dance. Um and unfortunately, my dance program at the time was very strictly just ballet and modern. Um I and I love now that dance programs are so multicultural, and I've gotten to teach, you know, at Stanford, at OSHA, um, and bring Bollywood dance and all of that. But when I was in school, it just wasn't a thing, and I remember having this distinct um uh experience where um a head of the dance department uh asked me if I did boll if I did Bollywood dance, you know, and that was kind of the way um they asked, and I was like, no, I'm an Indian classical dance artist, you know. Um I study temple dances, and it just it it was always like oh Bollywood, it's so fun! Like anybody can do it, it's just like so colorful, which yes, it is fun and colorful and all of that, but I felt like it was just so superficial, and I really wanted to um help change the way the West sees South Asian dance and talent. Um, and so that was that's really been the crux of like all of my work is trying to redefine how people see South Asian dance, that it doesn't have to be a spectacle, um, that it can be something very small and intimate, but it could also be um a place where you see different cultures coming together. There's a bridge between the east and the west, and there isn't just like one perspective or one experience that exists within the South Asian culture, you know?

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

So um yeah, it's uh that was really why I was like, I'm headed to LA and we need to uh we need to jazz up the way that we see the culture.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Yeah. And how do you protect like authenticity while still making like something commercially successful? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

So that's you know, I get I get that question a lot, and I think now what I've realized is that it's not so much about um like the commercial the commercial aspect of things. I don't think about choreography in terms of like, oh, you know, this is gonna do well because this is more commercial. I think that when you pander to the audience, it uh you can fall into this hamster wheel of um just doing the same thing over and over and over again. And it's so important to me that each of my clients or the projects I work on feel like they're getting a very specific brand of Joya, um, but also that that it's in line with their specific vision. So for me, I have to do right by the culture, but I also have to do right by the artist.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

So, for example, when um you know, if I'm creating for Sweetie or if I'm creating for Never, have I ever with a different like family-based storyline or doing um, you know, a film that's about competitive dance, yeah, the way that I move in these spaces is going to be very different because I want to be true to the director's vision and the artist's vision. Yeah, but I really believe that um based off of all the teachings that have been passed down to me, that there's a certain uh like I have a radar within me. Yeah, and that will never go away. And it really guides my work, and I try not to um I try not to cripple under the pressure of like representing the culture very much because it is crippling, the responsibility is crippling, but I have enough trust and faith in myself now that um I can deliver enough of um the culture in a way that people will be proud of it, um, but also that we'll be able to break down that fourth wall and invite people who have never experienced it before into it without feeling like it's too foreign.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah, absolutely. It's like finding that right sweet spot and like balance of it all.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

I want to talk to you about your projects you've been a part of because this isn't isn't just one moment, it's been a build, and you've worked on never have I ever, which we were talking about a little bit earlier, which was such a cultural moment, and now you're choreographing best of the best. To me, that feels like a shift from like representation being included to being centered. Oh, yeah. So, what did working on Never Have I Ever mean to you at the time?

SPEAKER_02 31:31

Oh my goodness, I think for me it was very exciting to know that I um I was on their radar, I didn't have an agent at the time, and uh they reached out to me, asked me if I would be interested in working on a project that Mindy Kaling is attached to. So just that um that feeling of like, wow, um, everything I have struggled through was worth it and I'm on the right path. Uh, it was definitely a defining moment for me as an artist.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Yeah. Did you ever have like a weight on your shoulders for like representation like on this project?

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Every day, every single day. No, honestly, it is really truly um something that can weigh way over your head. Um, because uh what I deal with uh my specialty is Indian classical dances, right? And then now bridging that um with the uh West, making it commercial. It's for me that's not a a goal. What I try to do is bring my South Asian American voice to um to the movement, take from the culture respectfully, and offer it to the director's vision or the artist, right? Um, and yeah, people will always have an opinion, but again, like I said, you know, I really have a strong faith in um in my my like conscience in terms of what I'm creating. So there will be times where I'm like, wait, I don't know if uh this will feel right or not. And if I get to that point, I back away immediately. You know, and um for me, especially these like classical dances, they they they mean so much, especially because they've been passed down for thousands of years, generation to generation, they survived um the British Empire. Yeah they actually uh had the uh notch movement, which is where they illegalized all forms of Indian dance or performing arts, you know. So just the fact that having grown up in America, I I was privileged to this knowledge, um, it's something so sacred to me, and I do want to share it. Um and I just hope that people um enjoy it and and love it. And if they don't, I would encourage them to, you know, express their own artistic voices and help shape that as well. You know, I I'm not saying that I'm always right and I may have made mistakes and I may make mistakes in the future, but I definitely try my very best to um make myself proud uh of the work and my gurus and um my community. But at the end of the day, you know, sometimes your community will also not support you. Yeah, and so I've learned that uh I I've definitely changed my narrative in terms of how I work. I I used to do everything for the community, for the community, for the community, and now I feel like you know, as I'm uh kind of blazing my own trail, building my own table and chairs, uh that I'm bringing my community with me, but it's up to them whether or not they want to stand with me or not.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Absolutely. And I just want to say, like, going back, like you did such an incredible job. Like you hit and nailed everything, like to the best of your ability that you possibly could with the representation, the cultural, the outfits, like everything, because you were literally doing quite literally everything for that. I was pitting you guys, we're figuring out Vinties, yeah. Yes, and like that is like so much to take on, and you did such an amazing job. So I have to give you your grace and your flowers for that because I know it wasn't easy, but you persevered and you did it. Thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. Did that experience like kind of change how you saw your place in the industry at all? I think it changed how people saw me in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Yeah, I felt like you know, I always knew that I'm here to do this work and this is what it this is what I do. Yeah, um, I think that was the moment where people were like, oh, hold on a second. Um you know, and I think this is from within the industry and just also audiences across, you know, and I I think some of the most fulfilling feedback was that people were saying, I finally feel seen. This is what Bollywood is, this is what Indian dance is, this is the experience. So many people saying, I remember dancing like this, and you know, on cal college campuses, I did that growing up, you know. Yeah, um, but I feel like uh people finally saw the authentic the authenticity that I bring to my work, and that was more of the shift. Was that the way everyone else saw me?

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And now stepping into best of the best. This is a full story centered around that world. So, what excited you the most about this project when you first heard about it?

SPEAKER_02 36:34

Oh my goodness. So, actually, like the my my interview process was almost two or three years long for this project. Yeah, um, but you know, it's about the collegiate Bollywood dance world. And I don't know if you know, but I actually started the very first uh Hindi film dance team, which is what we used to call it then before we called it Bollywood. I started the very first H of D team at UC Davis. Wow. Um, and uh, you know, that I lived that world, I lived that for four years, and building a team, uh, you know, seeing it break down, rebuild, going through all the madness of all of that, um, that story lives so close to me. So for one, it was something, a story that I really resonated with, and also it is 100% my experience, and so yeah, that's really what um called me to to the project, and I felt like you know, um at that time I was like, if things go my way, I know that I can bring so such a clear and uh authentic voice to this, yeah, and this is actually gonna be the very first time that the masses are going to get to see this world. This is this was a a world that a lot of people are like, wait, so there's like what what is this whole Bollywood dance competition world? Like, I didn't know this was a thing. Yeah, so this is the first time people are going to get to see that, which is very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

That's super exciting. We're gonna take a quick break, but stay tuned to continue our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Said what I said with Alan.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to Said What I Said with Celine. We're gonna continue our conversation with Joya. So we were just talking about Best of the Best and your whole audition process for that, which was so insane. Um, what do you want people to see in your choreography that they haven't seen before with this project?

SPEAKER_02 38:30

So, this is one of those projects where um it's it's coming directly from that South Asian American experience, but it it's different from things like Never Have I Ever, where now you're dealing with dancers who are the best of the best, quite literally, right? Yeah, um, and you know, never have I ever, it was about the experience um of of uh that the the dance and just the culture, whereas now we're like stepping it up, so you're gonna see the proficiency, the technique, and the various styles that have influenced this Bollywood culture. So I guess people will get to see that I'm not just doing classical, but there's the hip hop, the ballroom, there's um, you know, modern pieces, and so I feel like people get to see so many more sides of uh who I am as a creative, even though all these years my specialty has really been branded as Bollywood and South Asian dance, but um I think people will get to see all the other things that I've uh learned in my life, you know, and finally get to put that on screen.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

I'm so excited to see that, and that comes out later this year, correct? Yeah, later this summer. Ah, so exciting. Everyone make sure to stay tuned on Netflix, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Yes, uh, you it's Netflix, um, and uh the movie is directed by Lena Khan, um, written by Hassan Minhaj and Prashan's Bank of Ramanajam. And we have my three Ramakrishnan and uh Priyanka uh Kadia on that. So it'll be really exciting.

SPEAKER_01 40:01

That's gonna be insanely good. I'm really excited to see that. And on the other side, you've also worked in the music space, like choreographing for Sweetie, which is such a completely different world. So, how does choreographing for an artist like Sweetie differ from like TV or film?

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Oh yeah, so you know, with um any TV or film, uh you have a very specific story or plot that you are trying to stay in line with, um, and you're following the director, the director's vision. And so with the director, you're able to collaborate in in essence to now bring what it is that you know. With uh working with artists like Saweetie or any of the artists I've worked with, you have my vision, you have the director's vision, and you also have the artist's vision and so many different things at the same time. And um, I really focus on bringing the artist's vision to life. You know, I don't ever want to I don't want their um their spirit and their voice and the who they are artistically to ever be drowned out by my vision or a director's vision. Of course, we try to bring it all together. So that's number one for me. And what I love so much, like specifically working with um Sawe, we we talk a lot about um you know aesthetics and is that something that um is a bad thing uh if somebody just wants the aesthetics of something. And what I've learned is that aesthetics really is this guiding set of principles that informs your artistic movement or um any work of an artist. So it's actually not a bad thing, and so I feel like when an artist uh wants to incorporate the aesthetics of any type of culture or movement, it's coming from a place of a lot of love and respect and care. Absolutely, and they come with uh wanting to seek knowledge, wanting to uh do uh do it right, and so that was my experience with Sweetie. She's genuinely so inspired by Bollywood music, art, film, and I could feel that. And so for her specifically, because she wanted the aesthetics of Indian temple dances, I also have to make sure that we're doing it in a respectful way. I created dance gestures or mudras that are specific to just her. So it fits her brand as the artist that she is, um, gives her the aesthetics that she wants, but in a respectful way where we don't cross a line. I think when we get to a place where people are trying to pander and it's more of like we just want to get um a couple hints of the South Asian Bollywood vibe, that's where we start to fall into muddy waters.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah. And that kind of brings me into my next like topic of what we're gonna talk about a little bit. Like, we're in a time where people can just like go very viral overnight and just like call themselves dancers or choreographers. So I'm just like curious, like, how do you feel about like that shift? Do you think like social media has like helped dance or kind of just like watered it down?

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Oh, well, I think culturally, social media has been wonderful. Like people have access to dance and culture and perspectives from all around the world, um, which I think has made us all a little more open-minded and um you know brought us together.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Industry-wise, because you can, you know, you can buy a blue check, you can simply change your uh bio to say whatever it is that you want. Um I I don't think that um virality translates to viability of a career. So, you know, in wanting to be viral, that could be based off of years and years of content or one six second video. And just because someone is really great in numbers and with a phone. Screen that doesn't mean that they have the skill set to show up as a professional dancer or choreographer. That doesn't mean that they know how to create for camera, right? Or that they have the spatial awareness and the physical intelligence of matching other bodies that they've never danced with before. Um, and so yeah, I definitely don't think that it um translates at all in any way. So I think the industry has also come to realize that before it was very much like we see the numbers, we see the numbers, but then you call that talent in and they're not able to pick up the choreography, they're not able to make changes, they don't show up on time, that work ethic, relationships with other people. Though these are all things that really matter in terms of being a professional, not just a professional dancer, I think being a professional period.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah, and in general, for generally, yeah, a hundred percent. All right, we're gonna jump into a little said what I said segment to close things off. So this is where we just say anything, no overthinking, plain, honestly, oh no. Kind of like the first thing that comes to your mind, you know? Okay, okay, so the first one is a truth about the dance industry people don't want to admit is that we have an expiration date on our bodies.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

We put ourselves through so much, and every opportunity feels like it's the one that we do crazy things to our body, myself included. Um, but we have an expiration date, and you only get one body.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Period. I love that. Said what I said moment. That's our highlight reel, right there, you guys. The next one is something about social media dancers that annoy you.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Oh no. Um It's like marking is the new fallout. I just feel like everyone's marking. Yes. And then that just translates to dancers when they come in for a job. It's just everyone's marking. A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Like no one wants to go full out anymore. I feel oh my gosh. Yeah, like very subtle. Like, okay, okay. And the last one, the biggest misconception about success in your field is hmm.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Gosh, maybe that I mean, I don't know how people view me, but I mean, I feel like maybe sometimes people think like, oh, she must have just known somebody. That it's just like there's a there's always like a quick and easy way to have found that, and I think it's because of social media where it's like, oh, like because you were invisible, you got that and that and that.

SPEAKER_04 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

But people don't realize that it takes um years of work. Maybe they think it's like an overnight success, but it's actually years and years of all-nighters.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Yeah, absolutely. When you look ahead, not just at your next project, but like your legacy and what you want to be known for, like what impact do you want to leave on that next generation?

SPEAKER_02 46:57

I I feel like it's not so much for the next generation, it's actually my generation and the previous generation. I want them to see that careers in arts and entertainment are viable. And so if the next generation isn't interested in that, please support it. Please fill them with love and support and uh guide them and give them those opportunities. Yeah, you know, and I for the next generation, I just hope that they they continue to take us, you know, leap years forward. I feel like we're coming from a place of trying to tell our first initial story, but we've been able to, you know, accomplish that and move forward. Yeah. I hope the next generation just you know takes the baton and runs.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah, yeah. Beautifully well said, Joya, thank you so so much for coming on. It's been such a delight and really got so much like insight, and just honestly, it's been really powerful like hearing everything about your journey and just like everything going forward. So, congratulations on everything. I'm so excited to see all of your projects that you've been working on coming out. Make sure you guys stay tuned as well and make sure you guys follow Joya on all of her socials to keep up with all of her latest work. Thank you guys for watching. This has been said what I said with Celine, and until next time, bye.